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Xpro1 vs Xpro3

Discussion in 'X-Pro2 and X-Pro1' started by Phillym, Aug 7, 2018.

  1. Phillym

    Phillym Member

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    Hello

    I own an Xpro2 after selling my Xpro1. I can’t say I don’t like the Xpro2 especially with the 5.0 firmware update and Wifi transfer but unless it’s me or the settings of my Xpro2 I don’t feel the IQ is as good on the 2 as it was on my 1. The jpegs on the Xpro1 just seemed to have more POP. Has anyone else experienced the same?

    Thank you for any comments
     
  2. F2Bthere

    F2Bthere Premium Member

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    There are people who prefer the Xpro1 files. There are others who prefer the original X100 files.

    I have the Xpro1 and 2 and am happy with the results from both. I shoot RAW +jpeg, but for serious use I use RAW.

    I have a suggestion for you:

    Download the free trial of Capture One and try it on RAW files. See if it doesn't deliver what you are looking for.

    If you are looking for pop, try selecting the contrasty film setting and play with the clarity options. As with most image manipulations, your first moves will be too strong but as you dial it back, your images will sing.

    When you learn serious post processing skills, you gain a degree of control over your image results. Capture One gives a solid starting point and has a number of sophisticated controls (especially the advanced color editor). Beyond this is Photoshop (Affinity Photo is probably a good alternative if you avoid Adobe).

    Fuji's methods are excellent, to be sure, but they have to give you a best average result. Because you can see and interpret the specific image you are working on, you can decide how that image looks best.
     
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  3. Narsuitus

    Narsuitus Premium Member

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    I also shoot with the Please login or register to view links and X Pro2 and am happy with the images from both.
     
  4. Chuck Carstensen

    Chuck Carstensen Premium Member

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    Here is a link to a Fujifilm user who is expert with both XP1 and, 2.

    Please login or register to view links
     
  5. kevistopheles

    kevistopheles Analog

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    I prefer the X100 and original X-Trans 1 files (X-P1, X-E1 and X-M1) over those of the newer Fuji bodies. The newer bodies have a lot of things to recommend them but I'm kinda old school and don't really take advantage of the kinds of things the new bodies offer.
     
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  6. F2Bthere

    F2Bthere Premium Member

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    Thank you for posting this link.

    I looked at the three articles comparing the Xpro1 and Xpro2. The biggest benefit is that the blogger shot the cameras side by side and used the same lens, which reduces the variables.

    From these images, I don't see the advantage of the Xpro1. It does appear that the Xpro2 image has a greater tonal range and a slight resolution advantage. The other differences appear to be things which could easily be shifted in post.

    I would love to see larger images (also taken side by side) by someone who sees the advantages of the Xpro1 and can point out what they are seeing. This could even be taken a step further with RAW files and anyone interested could take a shot at demonstrating how the qualities could (or couldn't) be achieved.
     
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  7. Chuck Carstensen

    Chuck Carstensen Premium Member

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    Why pay for Capture One? Fujifilm has the excellent X Raw Studio for FREE.
     
  8. YogiMik

    YogiMik Premium Member

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    I prefer to do not use any film simulations, nor other automatically added algorithms. In Capture One, I choose Linear Response, and from this point I have plenty of room to apply my own methods. Whatever in color, or B&W. I find, this way I get much better for me results. Still Fuji colors, but algorithms are mine.
     
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  9. adamjbonn

    adamjbonn adambonn.com

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    It's a subjective comparison really, it's like asking people what colour is their fav

    I find the X-Pro1 has a little more charm they're a bit more romantic

    The AWB is more to my tastes along with the shades or blue and red

    The X-Pro2 I find to have a harder contrast, people often use the words more digital looking and that's a fair description, my description would be that the later sensor has a more of a CGI look to it, like a modern sc-fi movie. I find natively the XP1 rolls into the shadows and highlights more gracefully

    These things are of course correctable (sic) in post, but it can be a bit of a 'ho-hum' moment when the XP1 files sing my personal tune (sic) straight out of the box and the XP2 files need some careful massaging

    If one is happy with the XP2 files, then make no mistake the XP2 is by far the superior camera (give of take some niggles about OVF legibility, and the recessed AF-L/Q buttons)


    (Edit) addendum:

    I could revisit this if there was enough interest...

    The problem with my site (and it's a nice enough problem to have) is that every Sunday I write a new article. After one too many people said they liked my blog, I decided to make a blog of these articles (which also gives me far more tagging and category options in wordpress)

    Now the blog gets more hits than the Sunday articles and the blog is all stuff I wrote about 20 weeks ago... so it's sort of done with in my head, but fresh in the eyes of my readers!

    I still own both XPs, so easy enough to do some more side by side

    If one shoots raw then the software used plays a very big part in how the file looks

    The XP1 has 12 (iirc?) bit lossy compressed RAFs with a sensor that features pre-ADC amplification and the XP2 has 14 bit lossless RAFs and an iso invariant sensor, so one key difference between the two bodies is that in the XP1 a certain amount of the PP is out of your hands. The original sensor also features bigger pixels as well.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2018
  10. F2Bthere

    F2Bthere Premium Member

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    If you feel better about using one camera over another, that is more than a good enough reason in my book. I'm not interested in trying to persuade anyone to like one thing (or person or whatever) over another.

    And if the goal is centered around an in-camera jpeg result, the options are more narrowly limited (more on this later).

    But I do think it is good to understand what the actual differences between different ways of arriving at an image are. This is important for several reasons.

    The reason which matters most to me is so that there is less mystery around how a person can create what they want to create.

    Preferably we can figure it out with the tools they already have (often we think we need to "buy more" to get the look), but sometimes a specific tool is better for a specific task.

    I read and respect the use of words like "charm," "romantic," "CGI," and "modern sci-fi movie," because they evoke a sense of the kind of difference you experience. My concern is that without side by side examples we can compare, these differences are vague. When we have the side by side images, we can all see it.

    More importantly, at that point we can determine if there are ways we can get at this difference in how we create the image. It is possible that the camera itself is a limiting factor (although in this case, I consider that unlikely, since I have worked with files from both and they are my primary cameras). It is possible that the in-camera processing is a limiting factors if you are on the jpeg only path, but even this is not certain.

    But even if we are considering the narrow, jpeg only path, Fuji has provided a number of tools for adjusting how the jpegs are created and these tools might help us close the aesthetic gap.

    But only if we see side by side images and discuss what we are seeing.

    Doing this side by side comparison and carefully looking is precisely the hard work which helps us grow as artists because out of it evolves our greater ability produce the results we like. Well, it is the first step, anyway. ;)
     
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  11. F2Bthere

    F2Bthere Premium Member

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    I could be a smart Alec and say "download it and see for yourself" ;). But I think you are asking a very fair question and it certainly deserves a fair response.

    The Fuji app certainly is good and it does have the extra benefit that it is free. There is much to recommend it and I am grateful that Fuji has created it, especially for GFX users. And if it serves your needs, there is no point in spending more money.

    The reasons to support Capture One include being able to get at what the RAW file has to offer and what the OP described as the difference between the two cameras and how one seems to give more POP than the other.

    My experience has been that the lens used, the light (available or strobe) and the post processing used have a much bigger impact and that, other than slight technical advantages of the newer sensor, there isn't much difference between what I can reproduce.

    What Capture One provides is a more sophisticated set of tools than what we get from Fuji and those tools give us more ability to go in many different directions.

    The Fuji jpeg conversions are very special (and getting as good as the ACROS setting is admittedly a challenge), but the file you have has had some strong limitations put upon it if you want to process it further. Once you have baked in contrast and white balance to a certain point into a jpeg, you can't back out without penalty.

    Which brings us to @YogiMik 's method, which does the opposite. By using linear response, he has left the maximum of options available when processing the image.

    To be clear, I am NOT suggesting anyone use the linear response option unless you really know what you are doing. It does give you more flexibility but you really need strong skills before going down that particular road.
     
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  12. adamjbonn

    adamjbonn adambonn.com

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    Lots and lots of side by side pictures in my various articles comparing each camera
     
  13. kcg

    kcg Premium Member

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    Adam, your site is the best on the internet for an X-Pro user. It contains a ton of useful information that can only make us better photographers. Although I have an XT2, my camera of choice is still my X-Pro1. If Fuji had not slashed pricing I would sell the XT2 and purchase a X-Pro2. Unfortunetly living on a fixed income precludes this from happening.
     
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  14. adamjbonn

    adamjbonn adambonn.com

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    Thank you very, very much, that's such a kind thing to say. XT2 + X-Pro1 is really good combo IMO
     
  15. adamjbonn

    adamjbonn adambonn.com

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    X-Pro1 Vs X-Pro2

    LR6

    Open file, select Provia. Export to Jpeg.

    No further edits


    XPR15234.LR.jpg

    X-Pro1


    XPR28368.LR.jpg

    X-Pro2
     
  16. adamjbonn

    adamjbonn adambonn.com

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    X-Pro1 Vs X-Pro2

    SilkyPix Pro V8

    Open file, select Provia. Export to Jpeg.

    No further edits

    XPR15234.SP8.jpg

    X-Pro1


    XPR28368.SP8.jpg

    X-Pro2
     
  17. adamjbonn

    adamjbonn adambonn.com

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    That one may prefer one image over the over is normal and slots perfectly under de gustibus non est disputandum

    That they look different is however (to me at least) quite evident

    Interestingly, when left to it's own devices, the X-Pro2 typically choses a darker exposure than the X-Pro1, this is still true if you set your own exposure using the histogram.

    In this particular instance the XP2 has gone with a stop less light

    So let's true that up.

    X-Pro1 Vs X-Pro2

    SilkyPix Pro V8

    Open file, select Provia. Export to Jpeg.


    XPR15234.SP8.jpg

    X-Pro1

    XPR28368.SP8_1.jpg

    X-Pro2 + 1 stop
     
  18. magmouse

    magmouse Premium Member

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    Ha! That’s funny - I have just bought a very-lightly-used X-T2 to go alongside my X-Pro1. It’s clearly a very capable piece of kit, but I am not sure I am going to love it the way I do the Pro1, despite its flaws and limitations. We’ll see...
     
  19. F2Bthere

    F2Bthere Premium Member

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    These images are helpful because they give us a great starting point. Thank you.

    What I am seeing is that the color out of camera is richer from the Xpro2. The separation between foreground and background elements (orange object compared to hedge of bushes, hedge of bushes compared to building, etc). The bushes appear to have a more three dimensional quality. The range of tones on the orange item appear to be a smoother spread and also in the grass.

    When the exposure is bumped on the Xpro2, some of this is taken away.

    With properly exposed images, these qualities can, imo, easily be brought forth from either camera with a little work in post (as well as more impressive qualities).

    For me, neither Exposure is ideal for SOOC jpegs. I would have preferred a spot between the two to get the richer colors and keep some shadow detail.

    If I were shooting for RAW (what I normally do), I would prefer to start with the overexposed image which still maintains the sky and then dial it back. This would start An image like the Xpro1 produced (or perhaps even more overexposed) and then dial the orange object back as far as the Xpro2 image with some additional adjustments to get shadows and sky to fall in the right spots.

    It is good the exposure difference seems to be consistent for you. You can simply dial in compensation. The most methodical method is to profile each camera for how it's sensor and metering method combine using a known target such as a gray card, color checker, etc. once you have it dialed in, the cameras can be more consistent.

    If there is a consistent white balance shift in the Xpro2, there is a great color balance tool you can use for your jpegs which has two dimensions, giving you more control.
     
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  20. adamjbonn

    adamjbonn adambonn.com

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    I’m glad you find them helpful, thank you for saying so

    None of my cameras are set to make jpegs

    These samples aren’t about pp or capturing interesting scenes they’re purely about the differences between the two cameras, both as the camera meters natively and with a corrected exposure in post.

    There’s many ways to assist in exposure: external light meters, exposure cards, UNIWB etc

    There’s many ways to assist in correct colour (as you mention: colour checkers, whibal card etc)

    There’s many ways to get more organic looking images: VSCO, RNI, DxO, Alien Skin etc

    These can be used with any camera

    What this is, is a fair comparison between the x-pro1 and 2 and it shows the differences between each camera on the same day with the same lens, taken moments apart

    One may prefer the x-2 another the x-1

    But the differences are evident

    My opinion is that the frequent need to lift the shadows on the x-2 is what constitutes its digital look

    Even at +1 stop the xp2 raf is still blocking shadows, whilst the buildings behind are blowing out

    This might be down to pixel size. I don’t know. I’m reporting fact (that the images are different) not offering explanation
     

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