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The Camera You Use Doesn’t Matter

Discussion in 'General X Camera Forum' started by CWRailman, Sep 11, 2017.

  1. CWRailman

    CWRailman Premium Member

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    I'm sorry to see that we have gotten a bit off course from the stated subject which is "The Camera You Use Doesn't Matter". I guess I might have altered that course when I said "Sometimes I am viewed as a bit critical of those looking to upgrade their equipment just because a newer model has been released." I did not mean for that to be a shot at those who like JKnights have stated "Got to say that as a techie geek that I love new technology". There are many examples to demonstrate my point that the camera does not matter which was my original point.

    As Sean states and demonstrates in his video while he has moved from a X100 to a X-T20 there is no difference in his output. Can anyone who watched the video disagree with that statement?
    Damien Lovegrove moved from full frame Canon to Fuji X-T1 and X-T10 to X-T2. In looking at his images over the last ten years, you cannot see any difference in his final output. Again that is a point hard to argue.
    Michael Sewell moved from full frame to 4/3 Olympus E-M1. In looking at his work you cannot tell any difference. To prove a point he was attempting to make that the lighting was more important than the camera Michael Please login to view links showing a shoot he did with an old Fuji point and shoot camera he had stolen from his aged father.
    Gavin Hoey (check out his Youtube videos) has made the transition from full frame to 4/3 and you cannot see a difference in his work.

    My personal move was from Pentax with a brief stop at 4/3 then on to Fuji all in a matter of three years. I had no real complaints about the output of my Pentax cameras. However, from my first Pentax DSLR in 2002, I never liked the configuration, size or increasing weight of a DSLR and lenses. Going to 4/3 and then Fuji invigorated my interest in photography and brought me back to a feeling I had when shooting 35mm SLR. However, when I look at the output from my Pentax cameras and my X-T1 I cannot see any difference so the change was purely for the tactile feelings I now get from my Fuji system not for any perceived improvement in my photographic output.

    I recently asked a friend who moved from a X-T1 to a X-T2 why they made the move. They stated they preferred the joy stick as they always had difficulty in changing focus points using the D pad. That made sense. They then went on to say that for their output, despite what some of the reviewers have stated, they saw no difference in output quality between the X-T1 and the X-T2 and if it had not been for that Joy stick they would have stayed with the X-T1.
     
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  2. Scott Burkett

    Scott Burkett Well-Known Member

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    Denny,

    I agree with your thoughts here.

    In fact, I don't really want the agency I serve knowing or caring that I am shooting a Fuji X-T20 instead of the Nikon D700 they issued me. As long as my photos meet my vision as a photographer, and what they've come to expect from me as a shooter, the tool used is what helps me get the job done.

    (And yes, I know that if they look at the EXIF data they'll see the difference right away -- photo editors don't look at EXIF -- they look at photos).
     
  3. johndizzo15

    johndizzo15 Premium Member

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    The original point, singularly, is definitely 100% true if we are assuming that we are speaking solely to that one point. In the grand scheme of this conversation, it is a simplistic point which I don't believe most of us would argue. Things get infinitely murkier though the instant we move forward from that singular point.

    When taken into a different context, it inevitably goes in the direction we have subsequently gone since other nuggets are added to the conversation.

    Yes, the camera you use, so long as it allows you to get the image you need based on your abilities, ultimately does not matter. This, however, does not equate to the idea that certain types of consumerism in the camera market is bad. I don't believe any of what the video stated ties into this either.
     
  4. AdrianG

    AdrianG Premium Member

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    Over 40 years I spent maybe 50k on photo gear. 25k of it on Leica stuff, of which I sold one lens after 20 years because I bought the next generation of it, and the M5 after 30 years as "not working" for a few quid. Maybe 20k went into Canon SLR gear and 7 or 8k went into Fuji X, most of which I am going to get rid of (anyone care for a nice X-T1 + two or three WR lenses + a 56?). So, of the original 50k I got some back and the rest has a certain value, but there was major depreciation of the GBP so lets assume gear cost me 60k of today's money in 40 years.
    Oh my good! Just for a hobby! I'm at least compulsive and rich, because a Kodak Instamatic would have been good enough for me, just like it was for most people.
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    Oh my good, that's less expensive than 40 years of owning a dog.
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    I got a Benz 20 years ago. 85k. I still drive it but it's worth zero today. A 50hp Vauxhall Chevette @10k would have done. Savings: 75k, BUT BLOODY NO ONE THINKS I'M CRAZY!
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
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  5. GregWard

    GregWard Premium Member

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    I think that's a fair point.

    I use a mix of cameras from Nikon FF through to Olympus m4/3. Actually I occasionally use 1 inch sensors (Sony RX100 or Nikon 1) but for me that is beginning to step into a higher level of compromise. For the rest I sometimes play a game when my screen-saver kicks in. The screen-saver displays my favourite photos (as in my favourites amongst those I've taken myself) and the game is "guess the sensor size". More often than not I win - but only because I cheat by remembering where the shot was taken. It's rare for me to have been to the same place with more than one sensor type. In any other way I really don't think I (or anyone else) could tell. To that extent the answer to that key question is, therefore, "no" (the camera doesn't matter).

    On the other hand there is a reason why I have different cameras/different sensor sizes. (or maybe this is my G.A.S. speaking!) I still think I get better low light images (or images in a greater range of available light) from a Full Frame and I still find AF better in very tricky situations on a DSLR. But boy does that FF gear weigh you down - and boy do I notice when I take the Oly kit instead. Bottom line - I'm totally convinced that every single camera (and lens for that matter) on the market today - bar none - is a compromise. Sometimes the "compromise set" from one camera better suits a given situation better than a different camera with a different set of compromises. To that extent then "yes" (the camera does matter - on occasion)

    As I tried to say before - no a different camera certainly does not make me a better Photographer - but it can better enable me to realise a photograph that I want to take.

    <EDIT> Re-reading this - I oftentimes "see" an image I want to create in my head (as it were) - so the camera is a tool to unlock it. Maybe that doesn't apply to everyone? </EDIT>
     
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  6. AnthonyM

    AnthonyM Premium Member

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    I moved to the X-T2 because it is a much more tactile, responsive, camera. I can do things with it which I could not do with the X-T1. As a result, I think I take more good photographs with it. I have not done a direct comparison of the image quality, but that is probably the least important difference at this stage of Fuji's development. But has the camera made a difference to my photography? Yes, unquestionably.
     
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  7. johndizzo15

    johndizzo15 Premium Member

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    Also, my interpretation of what is said in the video was that his statement about the camera you use not really affecting your output was more of a response to his followers who were giving him grief about what he was using.

    Lastly, his whole motivation for switching from the x100 to the X-T20 was specifically the limiting factors of the hardware of the x100. So really, what he is saying is that it does matter to him. It just shouldn't matter to others what he is using and it shouldn't affect their buying decisions or what systems his followers should be using.

    In a nutshell, he is saying that his buying decisions should not affect your buying decisions and that whatever system you choose, your output will generally be consistent no matter what.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
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  8. boulevardier

    boulevardier Premium Member

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    There many reasons to respect people, and some reasons not to. People's camera buying habits don't come into either.

    My point was very simple and I explained it at some length. A camera may fill all kinds of holes in someone's life but it won't make them a better photographer. If being a better photographer is not their primary aim, it's nobody's damn business what they buy. I'm not asking for consensus on that opinion, but I have been round keen amateur and professional photographers for 40 years and I'm prepared to stand behind it. There's no reason to invest it with a sneer that was not intended. I say it as a statement of fact, and people are welcome to disagree with considered arguments. Please don't detect undertones that do not exist.
     
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  9. boulevardier

    boulevardier Premium Member

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    So will you stick with it for, say, 5 years? If not, will your enthusiasm for the X-T2 have been misplaced, or will the X-T3 allow you to make great photographs that were impossible with the last model?
     
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  10. boulevardier

    boulevardier Premium Member

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    And some who are just miserable.
     
  11. Greybeard Photography

    Greybeard Photography Member

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    Cheer up - I'm sure it will be OK
     
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  12. boulevardier

    boulevardier Premium Member

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    Perhaps I should have fed everyone's Gas and gone for likes? The XT-5 is the one to go for. It'll have a 95mp organic sensor, a Cartier Bresson mode, a National Geographic setting and a redeemable warranty if you don't win a Nobel prize. Serves me right for stating an opinion.
     
  13. AdrianG

    AdrianG Premium Member

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    Easy, easy, keep a stiff lads.
     
  14. boulevardier

    boulevardier Premium Member

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    They don't need to, they have a joystick. FFS, how to turn a simple comment into WW3.
     
  15. AdrianG

    AdrianG Premium Member

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    I was talking about a stiff upper lip, as in"keep your countenance." It's doubtlessly the first of all good's
     
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  16. johndizzo15

    johndizzo15 Premium Member

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    Except for the fact that "People buy stuff because they're compulsive, or rich, or miserable, or because it's payday, or because they spend too much time looking at barely concealed advertisements that pass for reviews on the internet" doesn't exactly exude neutral or positive undertones. But I suppose that is merely my subjective understanding coming through.

    There are opinions, and then there is pushing up against insulting or just plain insulting. No one needs GAS feeding.

    God gave us all free will and we will all act as such. Difference between some of us is, some are more inclined to be explicitly judgmental and need to tell everyone while others don't.
     
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  17. boulevardier

    boulevardier Premium Member

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    Being British I realised your intention first time. The fact you thought the assembled audience might associate the comment with heresy was the troubling part.
     
  18. boulevardier

    boulevardier Premium Member

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    Are you suggesting those reasons are misplaced? If so the usual way of challenging a claim is by recourse to logic, not logical fallacies. I was making a general comment. If people think I'm holding up a mirror perhaps they should look in it instead of throwing a brick. I like Fuji X-series cameras and have three of them. Should I hate Canon? Is that what photography has become, a tribal, totem waving activity marked by the incremental advance of the last number on the badge? Get a grip man.
     
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  19. AdrianG

    AdrianG Premium Member

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    Yes I know you did, but it was addressed to everyone. Not being British they might have misread it, like they misread your post.
     
  20. Angus

    Angus Premium Member

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    When I saw the video, I knew that this would bring about differences of opinion.

    I think the guy in the video is too opinionated.

    Like some have said, they love gear, I can respect that, just like I respect people taking great photos with cheap gear.
    We are all different and each to their own.

    If I still had my Kodak instamatic from the 1970s, or my iPhone today, I can gaurantee they would not produce the images I can get from the X-T1. My X-T1 is far more versatile. It's called progress, and progress is paid for by those who buy gear.
    Some of the great photographers back in the 50s and 60s had the gear of the day, not some Brownie camera for school kids.
    All my gear (tripod, two lenses, camera, filters, bag and monopod) has amounted to around $3000, that's a lot of cash but for a major hobby, with results that have future pleasures for all the family and friends, it's okay.
    I'm sure hunters and skiers etc spend a lot more, gamblers can blow that kind of money in an evening and have nothing to show for it.
     
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